Sarah Steinhöfel: Marketing, Mental Health, and Embracing the Weird (Transcript)
Victoria
It's great to have you on the show. Thank you for joining me.
Sarah
Thank you for having me.
Victoria
So, first question, and we're going to dive straight in here. Can you share a little bit about your personal experiences with neurodiversity and what it means to you?
Sarah
This is quite new to me, so I am not officially an inverted commas diagnosed and it's probably only come to me probably in the last maybe four years, I think so late 40s. As a kid, I was always that kid that was a bit gobby, a bit naughty, always in trouble, so I always thought that there was something different about me, but I guess child of the seventies, you never really cottoned on, did you? You just kind of cracked on and that's how you were. But it was other people saying to me, have you ever thought about this? So I'd never sort of really put two and two together and it was other friends who have ADHD basically saying, actually, Sarah, I think you might have got this as well. That actually made me start looking into it. It's still really weird and still really new, but it makes so much sense at the same time.
Victoria
Interesting. So, thinking about your early years in your career, how did that show up and what did that look like in terms of ADHD, do you think?
Sarah
So I used to work in a warehouse as a warehouse clerk, which was a lot of chasing around and trying to do 65 things at once, which I absolutely enjoyed. And I think that's part of one of the skills of having ADHD is that you can juggle relatively well.
Victoria
You've got a forklift truck licence?
Sarah
No, I haven't. They wouldn't let me do it and I was so annoyed about that because I wanted to do it. But I think that whole ability to be able to well, as coaches, we know we can't multitask per se, but that whole being able to do the juggle thing was really handy. But then when I moved over to Manchester in 1999 and I started working as a tech support analyst, that ability to juggle was amplified by about a million times. So handling multiple complex customer issues at the same time, that ability to be able to not work in a straight line, for want of a better word, was absolutely a gift. But then, I guess the double edged sword of that is always the anxiety that's associated with that. So I think it serves me really well in my career, but I also think that it probably feeds into the mental health issues that I've got as well. So anxiety and stuff, like, say, because there is then this thing about doing too much. You don't know when to switch off, do you? Don't know when to say no. It's sort of like you keep taking, taking.
Sarah
Yeah, I'll do this job and this job and this job, and then all of a sudden it's like, ok, not enough tabs open in my brain now. I can't do this. And then you just breathe. So it's been quite an interesting learning curve, looking back at my career, to say, oh, actually, that makes sense now, why I did these things, why I behaved like this, and why I had the issues, ultimately, that I did have.
Victoria
And you speak very openly about your mental health and that aspect. Is there anything that you would like to share with listeners today around that?
Sarah
I've had mental health problems for a long time, probably about 35 years. I wasn't officially diagnosed until I was 19, but I think I'd started showing signs of it earlier on. It's been a constant thread in my life. It's kind of like the best friend that you don't want in some cases. I've not been medicated for 20 years, so I don't take anything at all for depression or anxiety, and I self manage, which some people think I'm slightly crazy, but actually, for me, that works really well. And it's given me coping strategies that I think do help with the whole overwhelm that comes with ADHD, because I'm so self aware and I understand how my brain works better now and how things affect me. Because I've built up this massive toolkit from 35 years of having mental health problems, I'm actually able to pick and mix things that help with that.
Victoria
Yeah, I love that I use that exact phrase, pick and mix tools and strategies so that you've got different things in your mental toolkit that you can draw on. So thinking about the anxiety, because this is something that I struggle with as well, what are your go-to strategies? The ones that you kind of pull on or draw on the most?
Sarah
I have a little sign that people are not going to be able to see, but it says, "I'll get over it. I just need to be dramatic first." So part of me has now allowed myself to sort of have the anxiety. So let it come out, have the complete and utter hissy fit about something that's not going to happen, but then once it's out, kind of go, right, ok, we've done this now. We've had the little mental explosion, we've got this out there, then try and step back, which is easier said than done. Step back and actually look at it logically and say, right, okay, why am I feeling like this about this thing? So for me, it's about having permission to have the anxiety in the first place. And then once you've done that, somehow it kind of, for me anyway, it takes the sort of sting out of it and then I can sit there and go, right, ok, what is this in response to? What's made me feel threatened, what's made me feel sort of, like, fearful about this situation? And why am I responding like this?
Victoria
And do you notice any common themes with what the triggers are?
Sarah
I feel like I'm backed into a corner. So when I have no choice in something, and that happens quite a lot in business with the company that I work for, I now sort of like, have to toe the party line. And I don't always agree with that. And I think it's when I feel like I have nowhere to go. I think if I feel like I actually do feel physically, sometimes it manifests like I do feel like I'm being hemmed in and backed into a corner. So I think that's the biggest one is that whole, I've got no safe way of getting out of this, which is actually probably not true at all because most of the time it's only to do with marketing. It's not actually life and death, but it's how my brain sort of responds to that. So, yeah, that's a big one. Feeling, like I say, like I'm cornered.
Victoria
I think with me it was more around psychological safety?
Victoria
So when you're not quite sure how somebody is going to respond, whether it's with kindness or they're going to be really horrible and bark something at you, and even if they only do that once, your brain then not knowing which way it's going to go. So I get it a lot. Well, less now because I've transitioned these people out of my life, thankfully, but when I would see their name flash up on my screen, I would get the heart palpitations the sweats, shaking, that physical response to it all. And I think unless you've been through it and experienced it yourself, it can be really hard to explain because, no, it doesn't always make sense. No, it's not always logical. And actually, it was a really lovely message that I received, saying, thank you so much for all of your work.
Victoria
So it's not even proportionate. The body's response isn't proportionate to the thing that's actually going on. And I think that can be really hard to explain and articulate.
Sarah
I think that's why it's good to talk about it, though. Because if we sort of have these experiences and we're trying to explain that to somebody who doesn't have those experiences, then it's really hard. Because, like you say, when you try and explain to somebody, I don't know. I've just done my marketing budget for the next financial year, My marketing budget, it's not my zone of genius at all. It's been the most stressful, anxiety inducing experience ever. Spreadsheet. That's all it is, it's a spreadsheet. You try and explain that to somebody who doesn't understand the mechanics of anxiety, they're like, why are you anxious about a spreadsheet? I never said this had to make sense. But by actually talking it through to people and saying to people, this is how it feels, this is what it works like, this is what happens to me, then people are more likely to understand the strange responses that they might get out of us every now and again.
Victoria
Yeah, absolutely. And it kind of humanises our responses as well, doesn't it? Because there isn't a one size fits all and it's very much, well, what's going on for you? How can I help you? What support do you need from me? And all of those open coaching-led questions, rather than making assumptions and judgments, because everybody is so different. So how has neurodiversity, and maybe mental health as well, how have those topics impacted your career and what it is that you're doing now at the moment?
Sarah
Very much so. Part of what I do in my own business is I want to support people with their marketing who don't feel like they fit in and that I often bandy the word weirdo about, because it's my favourite word.
Victoria
You know what, I think every single podcast episode that I've recorded so far, the word weird has cropped up. So, yeah, it's a common theme.
Sarah
This is my people, but there are a lot of us, if we think about why people go into business, a lot of people go into business. I mean, there's lots of reasons, but a good bulk of us go into business because we're a square peg in a round hole. And that weirdness, whatever that may be. And weirdness is always used with much love, is what makes us different, but it also is what terrifies us. So I know myself that I own the word weird. I don't care that I love Star Wars and all the things that I do. That may not seem normal, but I'm okay with that, but a lot of people aren't. And the thing is, when you go into business on your own, you've then got to start shouting about yourself and say what you do and why you're doing it and all this, that and the other. And we read all this stuff about telling our stories and a lot of people just really aren't comfortable with that. And a lot of the reason why they're not comfortable with that is that they've maybe worked in an environment where they weren't ok to share that.
Sarah
But there may also be other stuff going off. So there could be trauma related stuff, there could be mental health issues, it could be that you are neurodivergent, it could be sexuality, it could be all sorts of different things that make you feel like you can't be you. So the fact that I have now discovered that I am most definitely neurodivergent, I have never wanted to fit in actually gives me a lot of lived experience to be able to support other people. So it's brilliant in that sense.
Victoria
Yeah. And I can see your energy really light up and lift as you're talking about this. And I think what you say about if you're coming from the corporate world, if I think back to when I worked in corporate, it was almost like you had to swipe out your personality as you swiped your security card in because your desk was sterile. You weren't allowed any kind of personal effects or photos. You didn't really talk about your life outside of work because while you were there, you were plugged into the world of work. And I think then having to transition to running your own business and then thinking, shit, people buy from people who they know, like and trust and who am I and what do I want to be comfortable talking about or comfortable portraying, that can be really awkward. And I remember some of my first social media posts, they're almost like robotic, very businessy and corporate. And it's taken me, and I still struggle with this now a really long time to develop my own tone of voice and feel a bit more comfortable, I don't know, swearing on LinkedIn or something, that feels like a really big deal, but really in the grand scheme of things, it's absolutely nothing.
Sarah
And I think LinkedIn is a good one because a lot of us that have come from a corporate background associate that with job hunting. So you'd make your profile all nice and fancy if you wanted people to headhunt you. Well, now we're business owners. It's not like that at all. It's about people to getting to know us. And part of what I say to people is you have to be you, but you have to be comfortable in what you're saying about you. There's no rulebook that says you have to tell everybody what you had for tea last night. If that's not relevant and you don't want to do it, then don't bloody do it. But if you do want to do that and you do want to bring that into your marketing, then why not? Because it's your business and it's you. If that's relevant to you, if that's something that engages your audience, then why not? It's a switch, isn't it, on how we were taught to use it as employees versus being business owners?
Victoria
Yeah. And what are your thoughts, then, thinking about boundaries? And you mentioned about you don't need to post about what you had for tea last night. Where do you think boundaries come into it? And just to give you an example, I have my daughter, Freya, she's ten, love her to bits, absolutely refuse to put any pictures of her on my public social profiles because that feels like an invasion of privacy to me. There's a line and that feels like people would be crossing it, so I don't do that. So what are your thoughts on being authentic while also maintaining a boundary that makes sense?
Sarah
I'm probably not the person to ask about boundaries, thinking, how am I going to answer this? Because I literally have no shame. I am prepared to share most stuff. Obviously there are things that I won't share, but everybody's boundary is going to be different. So I don't have children, so I would not share anything about my niece, for example, without my sister's permission to do so. So I say I don't have boundaries. I do, they're just not the same as everybody else's. But I think it's all about... It's very different for everybody. So some people are happy to share stuff about their kids, their home life, whatever. I think the thing that I would say is, you know, inside you, when you've gone too far, you're kind of like you're about to hit the enter button to post it and you get this sweats, you're like, panicking. I think if it makes you feel ill, the thought of posting it, then that's your boundary and don't do it. I also think that LinkedIn is an interesting one because LinkedIn's gone from one extreme to the other, hasn't it? Because it was very corporate and we didn't post anything about anything that wasn't to do with business.
Sarah
And now there's just like, everybody and his mother are posting dog pictures and God knows what else on there. So I feel like LinkedIn is in a bit of a transitional sort of phase, but it's about what you feel comfortable with. And I think if you know in your heart you don't want to share it, it doesn't matter what any marketing expert tells you, it doesn't matter how many clicks it would get for you to put Freya's picture on there doing something wonderful. You just don't do it because that makes you feel uncomfortable. And I think it's more about, for me personally, it's how it feels and how it makes me feel rather than the actual subject matter. Yeah, that makes sense. I posted something ages ago on LinkedIn that was actually all about using pronouns on LinkedIn, which is a very incredibly divisive subject. And I'd seen somebody who pissed me off posting something and I'd had to wait for, like, I think it was about half a day before I actually posted.
Victoria
That long?
Sarah
Yeah. Because I was so angry. So angry. But for me, I'm not afraid to have that conversation. I'm not afraid to say, what is your issue with this?
Sarah
Why does this make you feel uncomfortable? But yet I know that if I asked my boss to do that, she wouldn't go there. But I did have a little moment of sort of like sanity checking myself and I thought, you know what? No, I feel like I need to say this, this needs to come out. And it's one of my best reaching posts ever in the history of mankind.
Victoria
Rants generally are, aren't they?
Sarah
Yeah. But I'm comfortable in doing that.
Victoria
Yeah.
Sarah
Do you see what I mean? It's kind of like my personality is like all or nothing, so therefore I'm either going to do it or I'm not. There isn't this sort of decision in the middle. It's either all in or not in.
Victoria
I'm just impressed that you did it within half a day because something that I got pissed off about happened last week and I still don't feel like there's been enough time between it actually happening and me feeling comfortable because I'm like, shit, they're going to know it's about them.
Sarah
I hope the person knows it was about them because I was so annoyed with it. And it's somebody who is reasonably high profile in the area that I live. And actually he'd not actually posted something, he'd commented on somebody else's post and I'd seen it, which is the danger of LinkedIn, but I was like, this person is quite high profile. A lot of people respect their opinion and they were basically sort of going down the route of people choosing their pronouns being a ridiculous thing. And I'm like, Why? It isn't really is it because it doesn't hurt anybody, me putting that I am, you know, she/her on LinkedIn doesn't affect anybody as far as I'm aware. So far, like, in the last however many months it's been, nobody's actually died because I've done it. I don't think anybody's sort of, like, got that upset about it. So does it matter?
Victoria
So if we've lost a few followers because they don't like the fact that we have put she/her on our LinkedIn profile, then I'm ok with that.
Sarah
You and me both, love.
Victoria
Yeah. Rubbish. Rubbish. So an ADHD question. Is there anything that you found particularly challenging or you don't feel is highlighted enough about being self-diagnosed with ADHD?
Sarah
I think that I feel like I'm not good enough, like I'm not properly ADHD because I haven't got a certificate or a badge. More of a badge girl. I would prefer a little badge. I think there's a lot of us out there who probably know that we have something, let's say, be it autism, whatever. It doesn't even have to be neurodivergence, does it? There's a lot of us that have this feeling that we have something or we are something or whatever, but our society quite likes to put a badge on it. I mean, I do like a badge, so I'm that person. But we like to put a label on it, don't we? We like to know what we're dealing with. And I think there's something about not having that certificate, not having that bit of paper, not being on medication, for a start, that makes it feel like you're not ADHD enough. And I'm like it's ok for me. I've come to terms with the fact that this is not about what I appear to be to everybody else. It's about helping me know how to work better with my own brain, basically. So I think that's a bit of an issue.
Sarah
I also think, and this is potentially controversial, so I apologise now, it's a bit like mental health. So mental health awareness has really ramped up. So when I was first officially diagnosed at the age of 19 so we're talking bloody hell, 1992-ish?
Victoria
And officially diagnosed with what?
Sarah
With depression.
Victoria
Depression? Yeah.
Sarah
People didn't really talk about it. You did talk about but you didn't. It was all very sort of surface level. And then as time has gone on, we've had a lot of high profile people, celebrities, for example, come out and say, well, actually, I've got this. So it gathers momentum. And part of that is really good because it gets people having conversations. But then there's also a downside to that in some respects, in that it becomes or it feels like it becomes quite trivialised, for want of a better word. It's like it's sort of like, oh, I've got this as well. It's a bit I'm Spartacus kind of thing. It's like, oh, I've got this. And I feel like because I'm not diagnosed, am I with ADHD? Am I being sort of the one of that? But I'm Spartacus as well, people, because I don't have this bit of paper. And I think it is a complex sort of battle that goes off in my head anyway, because I am so vocal about this thing, about yes, I appreciate that lots of people have mental health problems, but the people that we see, the high profile people, have the luxury of being able to afford the best support.
Sarah
So it's kind of this weird I'm not sure where I sit with it.
Victoria
It does. Would you be interested in pursuing a diagnosis?
Sarah
I've thought about it. I have thought long and hard about it. I've also actually thought about going private because I know it's quicker. So I'm in a WhatsApp group with a bunch of other people that have got ADHD, which is a comedy experience in itself, because there are literally thousands of messages a day, because this is what we're like. But there are lots of people there who are really struggling with getting diagnoses and stuff. And if you go private and you end up medicating, there's this whole thing about going from a private prescription to an NHS prescription, all this stuff, and to be honest, it fries my brain. And I'm just sort of like, I don't think I actually need this because for me, it is about this is how my brain works, or doesn't work, as the case. Maybe this is what it does, this is its kind of vagaries, this is its plus points, this is the bits that really irritate me. I now know what I am dealing with, I now have some way of managing it. I don't think the certificate bit of paper thing is going to change that.
Victoria
What about a pin badge?
Sarah
Pin badge, definitely. The pin badge will make the whole difference.
Victoria
Thank you for being super honest with that, I think self diagnosis is equally as valid and particularly from what you're saying, you are self aware and you do know how your brain works or how it doesn't work, as you mentioned a moment ago. And if there isn't any benefit to you getting that certificate, then if the whole thought of it fries your brain. Then why would you put yourself through that amount of stress hassle and all of that? So thinking about ADHD, is there one tool or software or gadget that you rely on and you keep coming back to?
Sarah
Can I have more than one?
Victoria
Go on, then. How many do you need? You can have two. Go on then.
Sarah
So Trello, or Teams have an equivalent of what looks like Trello has been an absolute godsend for me. And my wonderful friend Helen Calvert, who is also a coach, set up Trello for me because I've worked in tech all my life, I know how to use this stuff and my brain just goes, can't do that. So she set me up a Trello board, which is the equivalent of a brain dump that has lots of different sections, lots of different columns. And then I have a working to do list because I'm sure this is not just me as an ADHD person, but my head is full of crap. There's so many different things that I want to do. There's so many things that I feel that I need to do that I have to get them down. And what traditionally I've been doing was notebooks. But as anybody knows, I have about well, I'm looking at them now, there's tonnes of them, they've all got various different bits in them that are not finished. So actually, having it all in one place has made it super easy for me to feel more in control.
Sarah
So that has been an absolute godsend. The other thing which I have spoken about on LinkedIn was my other friend Nicola told me about music at 145 beats per minute. There is some science around music at a certain frequency of beat that helps you concentrate. And I'm like, yeah, right. No, it does, it really does, it's magic. And I've tried all sorts, ironically tried all sorts of different types of music before somebody told me classical music and I've heard stuff about brown noise, all sorts of different frequencies. None of it touched the sides, none of it, until I got on Spotify, found a 145 beats per minute rock music stuff. And so I'm there Queens of the Stone Age, you name it, all at 145 beats per minute. I've got a playlist that lasts I think it's about 3 hours, 2 to 3 hours, and that goes on in the morning when I know that I need to concentrate. And there is something about that that keeps the bit of my brain that wants to go off on one occupied because it's music and I'm a massive music fan, so I'm singing away to the songs but it's not like I'm concentrating on that.
Sarah
The other bit of my brain that knows that I need to do this very important piece of marketing work is then able to concentrate on the piece of marketing work because the annoying bit is off doing its own thing. That to me, if you were videoing this, there's lots of arm waggling going off at the moment. That to me has been like the best thing ever and I wish I'd have known about that years ago.
Victoria
Really? How long ago did you find out about that?
Sarah
About six months ago.
Victoria
Really.
Sarah
And it's made such a difference because there are lots of things that I know that I struggle with. So the bloody marketing budget, the spreadsheet was an absolute nightmare, but put music on, I can deal with it. And when you say it out loud does sound a little bit crackers.
Victoria
It doesn't though. It doesn't. It's that task that you feel a little bit sick thinking that you've got it to do. You would rather in my instance, as soon as I start cleaning my desk, I know that is a sign of procrastination and that actually I should be doing something else because there is not why cleaning would be the absolute last thing I would choose to do. So I know that that's my default avoidance. I tend to use an egg timer and just go, right, I'm cracking that on for 15 minutes, 20 minutes. It doesn't even need to be a massive increment of time. But more often than not, maybe not the marketing budget, but it's never as big or as painful or as horrible as you think it's going to be.
Sarah
I've tried Pomodoro, which is a similar thing, 25 minutes time and a break. I start watching the bloody timer on my phone. I was like because I'd got it on my phone, I was like looking at it and I'm like, well, I'm not bloody working. I'm just sat staring at the clock ticking now. So that for me, it's not right. I've also found that podcasts, I love a podcast, but I cannot listen to a podcast and work because I pay too much attention to what the person is saying because I feel rude because I'm not listening to it and I need to give this my 100% attention. So I've tried it with Helen's podcast and I was sort of like, hers are really quick. 15 minutes, perfect time for me. I'll listen to Helen while I'm working away, the work stops and I'll listen to Helen. So for me, it's very specific, it's music, yet I know other people who it doesn't work with and I think it's about you knowing what your thing is. And my thing is most definitely music. That was my first love. So for me it makes sense.
Victoria
Comes back to what we were saying earlier about having this mental toolkit of pick and mix options that you can draw on at any time based on your mood, your energy levels or what you know, works well for your brain as well. So, a couple of questions just to wrap up. What's next for you? What are your goals, aspirations, business, life?
Sarah
The Hive Mind Company. So my business has taken a bit of a backseat for the last two years or so while I was getting settled into working back in the real world, so to speak. And part of me feels like there is more that I want to do with that. Now. I think that's probably less on the coaching at the moment, more on the awareness stuff. So my first love after music was always mental health awareness, getting people talking about how they feel. And that fits in really nicely with the whole marketing thing because that's what we encourage people to do. So I think there is something like that on the horizon. I am looking at doing yet another qualification. So I have always said that I would never do another one. Excuse me, but I'm actually looking at doing a Mini MBA marketing, a guy called Mark Ritson. So if you don't follow Mark Ritson and you like a good swear up, you need to follow him because literally he does some really good webinars as part of Marketing week, I think it is. And they come out sort of like every now and again.
Sarah
And the bunch of us who are in the marketing WhatsApp take bets on how quickly he's going to drop an F bomb and it's usually within the first 5 seconds. So I absolutely love him. So I want to do his MBA because I think marketing is an interesting subject. A lot of us as marketers tend to think we know everything about everything and actually we really don't. And I feel like I need to go back to first principles. So that's kind of very much the theory of it and stuff.
Victoria
So yeah, the next bit, next thing exciting. And last question for you. If you had one piece of advice to give to listeners who feel like they need to fit in the mould or maybe even hide aspects of themselves to be successful, what would it be?
Sarah
Don't bloody do it because it takes so much mental energy to do that. And I know so many people that I talk to, not even in sort of like a business capacity, but just people in general who hide aspects of themselves because they think they're not desirable to others. But the amount of mental energy that goes into maintaining that facade is just crazy. There's lots of people. So, like, for example, in the LGBT community who talk about when they come out or, like, trans people who when they transition, the relief is amazing because you're having to pretend to be something that you're not and that takes so much, and you then sort of end up in this sort of cognitive dissonance sort of place where you're saying one thing, but you actually mean something else. And it's such an uncomfortable place to be. That's not to say that you have to tell everybody everything. As I said previously, it's about being who you are within your comfortable limits, which for me is somewhat bigger than most people in fairness. But yeah, I think I would say just embrace who you are. It might be a journey, it might take you a while, but actually, if you do it in the long run, so much easier.
Victoria
I agree as well, and I think particularly in business, and I know I've been guilty of this, is appearing quite vanilla, quite middle of the road because you don't want to rock the boat, you don't want people to dislike you but actually I don't even mean posting something ridiculously controversial or opinionated, just showing a bit of personality and accepting that some people won't like the way you write or won't like the way you dress or something other. That's really superficial and that's okay, because if they don't like you, they're never going to buy from you anyway. So why are we wasting time and energy on people who are never going to support us in business? We might as well be ourselves because it's less energetically draining. And hopefully we can use that to work with people who do like us and we can build true connections with and true business relationships with as well.
Sarah
Well, we've had quite a few conversations about certain manufacturers dresses. So I am tattooed, I'm pierced, I'm currently wearing a fluorescent pink hat. And one of the things about my branding is it's quite in your face. So it's all very bright colours. Bright pink, bright red, orange, yellow. I was very conscious that I didn't want to appear to be that vanilla person, because when they turned up on a Zoom call or met me in person, they would be like, what the hell is this? This is not what I signed up for.
Victoria
You haven't mentioned the neon nails.
Sarah
Yeah, I've got neon orange nails as well at the moment. I'm having a little bit of a moment with neon, but it is kind of like there are certain industries where we feel we need to present in a certain way. Coaching, sadly, is one of those that it's a lot of middle class white women, straight white women, probably, I would go so far to say, and there's very little sort of variation. And I look at the people who I know who are coaches, and there are not many of us that turn up with a neon pink, neon orange nails and a load of tattoos and piercings and stuff, but there are people who look like me, who want to be coached. So, for me, toning myself down, becoming this Laura Ashley frock wearing person, which we have talked about, and having all these beautiful photos taken, take all my piercings out, cover all my tattoos, take all the skull jewellery off and everything, they would not be getting me. And then they'd turn up to the first meeting and they'd be horrified. And it's just sort of like, I wouldn't feel comfortable in the photos anyway. But it's that, isn't it?
Sarah
It's that whole if you are true to yourself, you will attract the right people. And if people don't like who you are, they're not the ones that you want to work with.
Victoria
Yeah, it's interesting because I am only lightly editing these podcasts and when I had a podcast a few years ago, I had some unsolicited feedback, which was, Victoria, you probably want to edit them a bit more because you use far too many filler words, errr, like and I just thought, you know what? That is how I talk in real life. So I would rather you meet me and not be really disappointed that I use these filler words or I stumble over my words. I'm okay with all of that because that is who I'm like in real life. And I don't want to project a perfectly polished, beautifully eloquent version of myself on a podcast because I'm not like and it would take too much energy for me to try and pretend to be like that.
Sarah
It's like me speaking the Queen's English. I'm from Yorkshire. I was very wary about doing video content, so I don't actually produce a lot of video content now, but I used to produce quite a bit within Facebook groups and when I first started doing, I was like, bloody hell, I sound really northern. I'm like, hold on a minute you were born in Sheffield, you are northern. You're not from like Surrey or something, you are actually a northern person. There's nothing to be ashamed of. I think we are taught very much so, I think in marketing, as a general sort of thing, we're taught about how we should fit certain demographics and certain moulds and how we should behave depending on our industry. And I'm like no, particularly around marketing as well, you sort of like, oh, well, if you're this profession, you should talk about this sort of thing. No, because we're all individuals and if you look at us as coaches, we talk about similar stuff, we also talk about very different things and that's perfectly fine because we are different people. So it works and people find their person, won't they? They'll find their track.
Victoria
Yeah. It goes back to what you were saying earlier about being yourself and almost switching content on to the people who it is going to resonate with, but then equally by default, meaning that you are going to switch off a whole load of people. Which is fine because it leaves the ones who do want to work with you and will be your biggest supporters as well. Awesome. Sarah, I could talk to you all day long, so thank you so much for joining me on the show. It's been absolutely lovely talking to you today.
Sarah
You too.