Rachel Clayton on Flexibility, Boundaries, and ADHD in Business (Transcript)

Victoria

Rachel, welcome to the show.

Rachel

Hello, thank you for having me.

Victoria

Oh, thank you for being here. I'm really looking forward to our call. So I would like to start with casting your mind back to your early life and your career path. Can you share a little bit about your personal experiences with neurodiversity?

Rachel

I guess what I first want to start off saying when I was invited to come on and I saw your messages about neurodiversity is, even though I've been diagnosed with dyslexia and when I was younger, mild ADD, that's what they called it, for a very long time now, I actually didn't realise I was neurodiverse. I just didn't know anything about it. Then I started to see lots of things around about neurodiversity and being neurodiverse. I was like, What is this? I was like, oh, my God, I'm neurodiverse. It's funny when you say what's your journey been like? Because my journey with neurodiversity is relatively new because I didn't know that that's what I was until recent years. So, yeah, going back to your question, I was diagnosed at university. My dyslexia was picked up in college and I went to have a formal diagnosis when I was at university. And yeah, I have just gone on from then whirlwinding through what I think life should be like. But my mum's always known that something was different, that's what I should say, that something was different from a very young age. It just wasn't picked up at school.

Rachel

Does that answer your question? I don't think your original question.

Victoria

It does. It's interesting you're saying, was it the term neurodiversity that you hadn't come across until recently?

Rachel

Yeah, I definitely hadn't heard of neurodiverse or neurodiversity until recent years. Again, until it was bouncing around on social media and obviously a lot of programmes have started to come out about people with ADHD and autism and stuff and hearing about this neurodiverse world and I... what's the word? I don't want to say stupidly, I...naively. As someone with ADHD, I've had to accept my naivety. That's just a trait of mine. But my naivety just always, sadly, went to that place because that's what we know, I think, or have been brought up to know in our society, that someone who was neurodiverse was perhaps someone that was autistic or I didn't think it related. Actually, when I read what the term neurodiverse was and the term neurodiversity, and I was like, oh, well, that just encompasses a whole group of people in a good way, do you know what I mean? Not in a bad way. I think, sadly, in our society, we've grown up for quite a long time of thinking that there's just this really small group of people that this relates to. Actually, it's not. There's a whole, as we know with autism, it's a spectrum, isn't it?

Rachel

There's this whole massive, broad spectrum that relates to people who are neurodiverse. When people ask me now like, what is neurodiverse? What do you mean by this? I'm just like, It literally just means brain different. That's it. Neuro, brain, diverse, different. That's all you've got to understand. That pretty much...not relates, I don't want to be that that I'm putting down or aside my own ADHD or anything like that, but it just relates to so many people. So many people's brains do work differently.

Victoria

Yeah, absolutely. I think the dictionary definition is about the natural variation in the brain or the normal variation in the brain. It is normal for there to be these types of differences. I think you raise a really valid point about neurodiversity, neurodivergence being more visible in the media. So when you came across this a little bit more, did that help you or did it feel like it was setting you back. What was your reaction to seeing that on socials?

Rachel

It certainly helped. I went through a whole journey at the beginning of this year where it did, was... I'm not going to say a hindrance, but I just went through a very down stage in my life. I reached ADHD burnout, I reached depression. But that wasn't, I don't think, to do with learning about neurodiversity. I think that's helped, exploring that there's just lots of other people out there. Sorry, what was your question? Remind me of your question, because I had a point that I was going to say.

Victoria

Just about hearing about the word and seeing more about it on social media, whether that helped you or whether you felt like it impacted you in a different way.

Rachel

Yes, it did. It did help because it just made me realise that there's so many more people out there that I can relate to that I didn't think about. Because I think for such a long time, when I was diagnosed, like I said, my main diagnosis was dyslexia. I grew up thinking, oh, I'm just dyslexic. Then I explored more about this mild ADD, which is ADHD, and actually that's a bigger spectrum. But then learning about being neurodiverse relates to people with ADHD, it relates to people with OCD, relates to people who are dyspraxic as well, all these people. And I'm just like, great, this is awesome that there's one, attention to it, but two, that there's this whole wider group of people out there that we can now connect with, because when you are neurodiverse, you do feel very lonely. You can be in the same room as someone that's got ADHD and you can still feel alone. So I just think the more that the community builds and there is more awareness around it, the better it will be for our society in the future.

Victoria

Yeah, absolutely. I think labels and putting people into boxes, I was just talking to somebody else about this before today's call actually, it can be really helpful. Labels can be really helpful in the sense that they can help you find a sense of community, figure out your identity, but they can also sometimes be disempowering when it does lead to putting people into boxes or stereotypes or unconscious bias. So is there anything that you've experienced there around dyslexia and ADHD that you feel like just wasn't true for you, but other people assume it is true because of these labels?

Rachel

This is one of the questions I found really hard to answer, because I felt like throughout most of my life, I've never really had that many issues with people treating me differently for my dyslexia and ADHD. But, actually, the sad answer and truth of that is because I've masked so well. Actually, I haven't been my true self for a long time, which is why it's never been an issue to other people. But what's sad about that is, as I'm learning more now, it's kind of come crashing down on it. The reality is that actually it's on me because I've been masking for so long. Trying to unmask has been quite hard. I want to say something about labels and putting things in a box. I think, sadly, with the society we live in today, we still need labels. I would love to be like part of my vision for the future is I'd love to be there won't be labels. But like you said, labels help us to connect to something. It's the whole putting in a box that's the problem. The label isn't necessarily the problem right now because like you said, it offers community, it helps awareness, it helps people...

Rachel

What's the word like? It helps them not express themselves, but identify themselves or whatnot. It's the putting in the box that... Like I said, I haven't massively experienced this, but when people think dyslexic, people are stupid. My biggest thing is, and I guess because I have a little boy going into school age, my biggest thing is worrying about what school will be like, because I remember what it was like when I was at school and so many people learned differently. I've got people close to me, extended from me that have got kids that are dyslexic, think they're ADHD, whatever that might be, have been diagnosed with autism or they think they're on the spectrum. It just still makes me sad. This is probably related. I know people will listen to this far and wide, but we're talking about the UK school system. It is that it just makes me really sad still that we're still stuck in this box and we're still stuck that things are done a certain way. I get that it's not a teacher's fault because, again, it's how they're trained and the funding and all that stuff. But if every different brain or brain different was accepted and the way that people learn differently was accepted, then that putting in the box wouldn't be the problem anymore.

Rachel

Do you see what I mean? It's not the label that you're ADHD or dyslexic, because I think I don't know the actual statistic. I mean, when I was younger, like I said, I wasn't even picked up that I was dyslexic, but if I was, I probably would have been the only one in the class. Whereas now, probably like 5-10 people in a class probably would be dyslexic, dyspraxic, ADHD, autistic, or whatever. That would be a great thing because how much they would... As we now know, well, sadly, a lot of other people don't know, but we know in the neurodiverse world, how much they bring to the table, how different learning they bring to the table, how they see things differently, could be a great way for other people to learn as well. But, yeah, they're sadly putting it in the box, you must do this, and doesn't always work. I mean, an example, my sister recently is going through some stuff with my nephew. And one of the teachers said to him about he just needs to focus more. And she said to the teacher, actually, it's not about that because he can focus for two hours at home playing football, or he can focus for two hours at home doing something else that he's really interested in.

Rachel

It's because it's got a topic that he doesn't enjoy learning and therefore you have to put the enjoyment on it to help him focus. So, yeah, that's the sad part for me around labels and putting stuff in a box.

Victoria

I get that completely. And how has it helped you?

Rachel

With the label, do you mean? Like with ADHD? Yeah. I guess I have always known I was different. I definitely did have... was it last year or the year before? Maybe last year, I definitely had this year of empowerment and thinking, I'm different. This is great. I, sadly, like I said, at the beginning of this year, took a downward spiral, but I'm getting back out of that now. I know that my brain and the way that I work brings a whole different skill to the table that I think, oh, well, other people do that, don't they? And people remind me, no, they don't. I'm like, Oh, ok, this is great. And so you do start to, if you can, work on your mindset of connecting to it. I'm not going to use the word superpower. I have done in the past, but I've learned a lot about the difference between whether it's a superpower or whether it's super annoying. I think there's a mix to both of it. I certainly, definitely have skills and attributes to me that make me different, that make it a good thing, how I can help people and how I see things.

Rachel

But yet, sadly, there's always the downside to ADHD and what that comes along with.

Victoria

Yeah, and I think the superpower scenario is something that I speak with James Dean about in a different episode, because the superpower idea can sometimes take away that human element. Yes, there are these amazing skills, but you're not a robot and you can't just turn these things on and off. You still need to have spiritual, emotional and physical wellbeing practices in order to support you to be your best self at work. But also you're a parent and a partner and a business owner and you've got a social life as well to bring your best self to all of these things. You need to humanise the skills.

Rachel

That's it. And that's why I think, again, coming back to the labels in the box is, we run the risk of being like, oh, we're neurodivergent. We've got these superpowers, that therefore we then get put in a whole different box. Oh, well, you're different to everyone. And that's actually not true. I'm still a human. I'm still a human being. Like you said, I'm still a mum. I'm still a wife. You can't see this because obviously you'll listen to this. I'm going to use the words, I'm just still whatever normal is these days. But do you know what I mean? Just the same as everyone else. We said, we forget that humanality, don't we? That's what you need to bring back into it, is we're all humans.

Victoria

Absolutely. So if we're thinking about how your brain works best, how has that impacted you setting up your business and you running your business?

Rachel

So my story with my business is that I don't know why, but I just knew from a very young age that I wanted to run my own business, and I never really clicked or connected that that was to do with having ADHD or being neurodivergent. It was just something in me that was to just have my own business. Now I've run my own business for a number of years, I'm a bit like, Oh, this makes sense.

Victoria

What things make sense?

Rachel

As in just having flexibility and the empowerment of it and the types of things, I guess, that I work on. But yeah, mainly the pure flexibility, I think, behind it. My narrative for the last couple of years has been... My original why I started my business was because I'd had a baby, I wanted to work flexibly, I wanted to be at home, watch him grow. I soon learned literally within the end of the first year of having my own business. Now it's very much like I said in my narrative that actually I have my own business and flexibility for me. Yes, part of my why is my children, but actually the biggest part of my why is me. I've learned that that's not selfish, that I'm owning it and being like, I'm actually really proud of that. I did struggle in a 9-5 job. Don't you know what? It didn't mean that I didn't do it and it didn't mean that I'm not incapable of doing it. It just meant there was different struggles to it. This time I get to work around when I want to work. I get to choose the times that my brain works.

Rachel

If my brain isn't functioning one day, I do less. If I wake up tired or I get a hyper fixation at three o'clock in the afternoon, I can roll with it very differently. Again, this whole thing that happened at the beginning of the year with my ADHD burnout was because I was going through a lot of unmasking and accepting around ADHD and what it meant. I looked back at different jobs and how I'd worked and realised how much I found it hard to concentrate in an open office environment. How there were days in an office where I remember saying to like, even... Some managers I was really close with, and I remember saying to managers, I am struggling today. I know people have those days, but I guess neurotypicals might just be able to go, right, ok, well, I'll just crack on with this. And as a neurodivergetnt you, that's really hard. I remember one of my managers I worked at a charity, I remember her taking me into a side office and she was like, Let's just pretend I have a meeting, because she knew I needed to be away from my desk. I needed just a minute to be out of the zone.

Rachel

Do you know what I mean? So and that's not always possible, I guess, in a nine to five. Again, I'd love to see in the future that that will be possible. I think a lot more workplaces are working on helping people who are neurodivergent and that change. I would love to see that change. But right now that isn't for me. And I think that's why having my business and that's part of my business journey, it suits me and having ADHD.

Victoria

And I know that flexibility is really important for you around your career goals, but also your roles as a mum as well to the two boys?

Rachel

Two boys, that's it.

Victoria

Two boys. Yes. So what things do you do to make sure that you are having that flexibility in your business to make it work for your brain?

Rachel

I can sit here and say some of the things I do, but I'm not going to pretend to sit here and preach to the choir because it's a work in progress for me. That's why I work with an ADHD coach like yourself. I'm still learning, I think, as a business owner. As you do, I think it's an ever ongoing journey, isn't it? I'm learning about... Funnily enough, I'm literally just about to launch... I just pressed live on it this morning. I've got a blog around flexibility versus boundaries.

Victoria

Oh nice!

Rachel

For any business owner. Yes, because we talk about having set boundaries; don't work the evening, take a lunch break, don't take this call, this that and the other. Then on the other hand, we want to have flexibility where my brain might work better in the evenings, or it might be better if I could just take Sunday to work by myself without my kids. I think I make a rule of thumb and it's about to change because my oldest one is going to school. But there are certain days during the week that we don't have childcare. I made a rule. I was trying to work on one of the days, and now I've changed it so that I don't work at all on that day because I was feeling like I wasn't productive. It was making me angry. With ADHD, your obviously emotions can get really high really quickly. I was getting really frustrated. I was getting angry. That's not good for my children. It's not good for me. It's not good for my mental health. The boundary was on that day, which is normally Wednesday, so yesterday, completely a day off, completely with the kids, in the zone with them, and be that, and be present.

Rachel

Sadly, we all have different things in life that mean things have to work differently. There is another day during the week I do have to work and I do have a child at home. But again, the boundary is... Well, not the boundary, but I guess the mindset is, I am ok to do this because I need to work and my child will be absolutely fine, even if I'm doing a bit of work in the background and making sure I dedicate some time to play with him. I've got better at making sure I... Last year I got rid of... I had a separate work phone and a personal phone, and I got rid of the work phone. I've made sure that, um, notifications are turned off and stuff like that when it comes to an evening or when I need downtime. I've turned off all my email notifications on my laptop. When I'm on my laptop, I don't have things pinging at me all the time because I find that really distracting. Flexibility can work really well. I'm still working on the boundaries. Like I said, I think it's just a work in progress. I'm very good at recognising when something isn't working and then working through when something needs to change.

Rachel

From September, it will change, because my little boy is going to school. And so the boundaries will be different again as to what I do and don't do at what point in time.

Victoria

Yeah, absolutely. And I think I work really well with boundaries, in the sense that I need to... I use a lot of time blocking to try and manage my time, because what that allows me to do, I can feel quite overwhelmed with the volume of work if I just keep it all in my head. So I'm quite good at time estimating as well. And a lot of the work I do is based, it is time bound anyway, rather than projects. So when I plug that all into my calendar, just seeing that I have enough time in my day puts me at ease and removes the anxiety that I get if I keep it all in my head. And interestingly, I use an app called Motion to help with all the time blocking.

Rachel

I really want to use that. I keep seeing it on... It keeps advertising itself to me. And I'm like, oh, no.

Victoria

It is good, but I realised I had a setting turned off that would automatically give you a break every couple of hours or whatever frequency of break you wanted. So I looked at it today. So I had an early start because I work wonky hours because of school. So literally, from five o'clock in the morning all the way to 4:30 this afternoon, there was not one break. And I was like, time blocking normally works really well, but seeing that day ahead, it's like, oh, that makes me feel a bit sick. But I've now found this new setting, anyway, that gives you the automatic break. That's good. And that leads me on to a question to you about what apps or software do you find really useful in your business or your life?

Rachel

I couldn't, I guess, live without anything that helps me set a reminder. I use my notes or I've got part of my Microsoft package, is their to dos app, because it can link with your emails and all this stuff. But what I find really helpful, and you don't have to use this app, you can get any one, is it has a little widget on my phone. And obviously, if this was in video, I would show you this widget, but it sits on the front of my home screen of my phone. Any time I think I need to remember something, I add it to that. What's really lovely is it's really simple that it gives you three options and it says, When's the deadline? When do you want a reminder? Does this need to repeat? Ping, done. That's in my phone. Yesterday, my cousin came over and she's like, oh, isn't it your friend's wedding soon? I was like, right, need to get a card, need to get a reminder. That's going in my phone reminder because I have no idea. I'd forgot. So yes, something like that. And I love that I've now, I think we're going to come onto this about talking about Access to Work, funding stuff.

Rachel

But I was very lucky to get funded a smartwatch. So now I can link those reminders as well to my smartwatch. So that reminder coming up is really helpful to me. I guess tech wise, I would probably find it really hard to live without my phone, but I don't want to say I'm glued to my phone. I'm trying to get a lot better at putting my phone down or my phone away. But yeah, definitely stuff like that. And then systems wise, like tech tools and stuff, I use Trello to help me plan out everything in the back end of my business. So I find it very visual. I might be moving over to Notion because that's quite a fun way of doing stuff. But yeah, Trello just works for me at the moment in my business. Obviously, I live in emails and stuff. But yeah, I wouldn't say I've got much more else because I've been trying to, I guess, uncomplicate things. I think it's very easy when you're neurodiverse or you've got ADHD that you can be like, oh, new shiny. I could probably reel off to you three apps that I've downloaded. I think one of them actually, which I would love to do, but again, you always download it and then realise that they actually want you to join up to a membership.

Rachel

But yeah, it was about just really minimalism or something rather, because I was like, can you have a way that you can cut out noise from social media and all this stuff? What my struggle with is with my phone, I can't turn off all the notifications on my phone because I would never remember to do anything. I would never remember to go and see if someone's messaging me on WhatsApp to see if someone has commented on something on social media. I just never would do it if it doesn't remind me to do it, do you know what I mean? But then that means that I have notifications all the time. I was trying to look for something that might be able to help control that for me so that it might… I'd love it if there was an... If everyone listens to this and there's an app out there that does this, that says, right, ok you can dictate. I've learnt to use my do not disturb on my phone quite a lot. So if I'm really focused on a piece of work, I'll put my do not disturb on for an hour. If I'm on a call, I put my do not disturb on for an hour or two.

Rachel

But if there's any way that people can pick and choose the hours, I wish you could say to WhatsApp like, just show me the messages from my husband, but from no one else.

Victoria

Do you have an Apple or Android?

Rachel

An Android phone.

Victoria

Ok, so on an Apple, there is something called Focus modes, where you can choose the time you choose which apps or you choose which people you're happy to receive notifications on. So there probably is something for Android. I just don't know what it's called.

Rachel

What's that called for a thing?

Victoria

Focus. Focus mode. Yeah, Focus mode... And so mine automatically goes on to work mode at nine o'clock in the morning, even though I work wonky hours with silly o'clock starts. But at that point, it literally changes what my wallpaper looks like on my phone to something really boring. It shows me my calendar so that I can see that. And then I have to search for apps rather than actually have them visible on the home screen. So it just creates a layer of friction and inconvenience that causes you to question like, oh, why am I going on this again?

Rachel

Yeah, yeah, that's a thing.

Victoria

Listeners, if there's anything to do with focus modes for Android phones, please connect with Rachel. Tell us both we would love to hear from you.

Rachel

I think the other just a quick couple of apps, obviously you've got all the regular ones that we all live on, don't we? But the other one in the last six months I've added into my main apps that I use is, I didn't even realise I have this just stand on my phone, is recording yourself. So I kept saying to my VA team, I just want to be able to record. I get so many thoughts, ideas. I just want to be able to record. They're like, You should have a recorder app on your phone. And so that now, when I get these ideas come into my head rather than having to go to WhatsApp to voice note them to someone, or what I was doing was taking a video of myself and then doing nothing with it, I now can go on, add my record, do my recording and it transcribes it for me, like it puts the time and the date on it or whatnot. I can add a title to it and just be like it was about this or whatever, and then it just sits in that app and should I then need to do anything with it I can, which is always really helpful. So yeah, it's just...

Victoria

Nice. So it's not necessarily an instruction for somebody on your team. It's just like you have this thought and you want to be able to capture it.

Rachel

I just need to get it out of my head, basically.

Victoria

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the beauty of some of the apps as well, isn't it? That it can support the mental load, like you were mentioning about that card or trying to remember that just being able to plug it in somewhere else and not having to carry it in your head makes the biggest amount of difference.

Rachel

And I have tried to get very good with tech and systems not having... Even I use Trello for the back end of my business, I don't use Trello to do my to do's and all that stuff, because I was very conscious that I was trying to put stuff in Trello, then I was trying to write stuff in a planner, then I might have stuff in my to do list on my phone and it just wasn't working. So I try now to just pick one way of doing things. I still plan my week, like my appointments and stuff in a visual planner because I like that it's visual to me and I can see it. And I will pull that from my digital planner on my emails, but that's what works for me. I think it's about finding what works. I've introduced Slack in my business with my clients and my team because that helps me, again, turn off a notification, all that stuff. It keeps it in one place. It keeps it outside of WhatsApp and keeps that noise to a minimum. So, yeah, that's been really helpful as well.

Victoria

Yeah, awesome. You touched on Access to Work. Can you share a little bit with the listeners about what that is and the difference that it's made to you?

Rachel

I learnt about Access to Work last year and I hadn't really... Well, the weird thing is I've actually known about Access to Work for years, I just forgotten about them. I had Access to Workwhen I was first diagnosed with dyslexia. When I finished university and I went into a job, I was able to get some Access to Work funding with courses and I just completely forgot that I did that with dyslexia. I think I'd always had in the back of my mind that it was very much for people that were employed and in a corporate job. Then last year, I'm part of this lovely little WhatsApp group with other ADHD women who are business owners. They just said, oh, I've applied for... One of them said, Oh, I've applied for Access to Work funding. I was like, what's this? Relay this to us. Sorry, what's this? They said that you can obviously get grant funding. I put an application in immediately. What I loved is that you didn't have to have a diagnosis, because what's confusing in my story, I think, is even though I've got that dyslexia diagnosis and I'm diagnosed with mild ADD, I tried to get reassessed again when I was older to have medication and they didn't sign it off, which is hilarious, because I had a bit of savings to buy a property and I'd have a steady job.

Rachel

And they were like, you don't really qualify. And I was like, all right.

Victoria

They means tested you in terms of whether they would do it well, I've not heard that before.

Rachel

Yeah. Even then my parents had filled out a report to say, yeah, this all applies, even though I printed out reports, even though I had the certificate from when I was younger that said I had mild ADD. I mean, that doesn't disappear. They know ADHD is... That's it. It's a condition for life. It's not like it just comes and goes when it chooses. That would be nice, wouldn't it? I wonder if you could choose, that'd be great. They didn't sign it off. I guess technically, I feel a bit torn. I'm like, as of today, right now, am I diagnosed with ADHD? Am I not? But I know I have ADHD anyway, so don't need that. But yeah, so what was nice about Access to Work is you didn't have to have the diagnosis, but I was able to put in there that I was dyslexic and I had ADHD, here's some things that I felt like I needed support within my business, some of the things that I struggled with. Then it took about four or five months for a case worker to get in touch with me. But when the case worker got in touch with me, everything went really quickly.

Rachel

Sadly, that is what triggered my ADHD burnout. Well, it wasn't just that. There were multiple things that happened that triggered the burnout and the depression. But part of it was this realisation and awareness. When I went through the assessment, it was like, oh, I could really use help with this because I struggle with this. It just hit me all the things that I had struggled with for so long and hadn't really realised because I was masking. I was just getting through it. I was just getting on with it. I'd realised that I'd been struggling for years and that's what made me really sad and put me in a really dark place. But yes, Access to Work was great. The assessor was really good, like the assessment that I had, going through asking me questions, but I had also prepared as well. I'd try to read up on articles, ask some friends what things they covered, and I made a whole list of suggestions of things that I would ask them for or support with, and they said, Yes, no, yes, no. So that was great. I've since had funding for an ADHD coach, funding for a support worker, which I actually work with a lady that's got a little team, so I get multiple people, which is nice.

Rachel

Then I've had stuff like a new tablet. I am going to be getting it just takes a long time. That's the only thing I would say, is the downside to the process is that it's not very smooth, but I'm going to be getting a new desk. I'm going to be getting some equipment on my computer for my dyslexia around dictation and being able to talk and it writes out all that stuff. That would be really handy as well. I got my smartwatch, which was really helpful. I think there is quite a lot available. It's just not really easy to find out what's available to you. But it's made a massive difference in my business, especially the coaching and the support worker. You can't.... like you know to have a VA or a VA team and it be paid for that it was just incredible. I have someone that works with me on all my writing, writes blogs for me or checks blogs for me, or I can send them a report and say, please, can you read this? And they check it all for me. So that's been amazing.

Victoria

And like you said, it's not doesn't feel as well known for the self-employed. So if there was a business owner listening to this now and they hadn't had of Access to Work and they were thinking of exploring it, what would you suggest they do?

Rachel

I would just say as well, I know obviously this podcast is specifically for people that are neurodiverse, but it doesn't just apply to that. I had a lady come to me from an old job and she'd actually just been in an accident, we forget the words in the title, which is Access to Work. Whether you are self-employed or employed, it's all about giving you funding for things that will help you access work. I've had people that have got support for getting a taxi to work because that's how they need to access work. That will be my first thing is don't be afraid to just apply. You don't need to have a diagnosis. That's the second thing. If you know wholeheartedly you are ADHD, you're dyslexic, you're autistic, whatever that is, and you are struggling with things in your work, you can still apply. There are some specific... What is that the right word? There are some things that you have to have, like you have to have a minimum income threshold, but I had just come off of maternity leave. When they were like, can you send us your books to prove how much you earn?

Rachel

I'm like, well, you're not going to see a lot in there because I haven't been working very long. But because they understood my circumstances, they took that into account and they just said, when you come to be reviewed next year, you will need to prove that you've earned this much money. I know some people sadly have had to write mini business plans, but there are communities out there. You can contact me probably yourself Victoria or other communities out there that have one page business plans that you can just send them that are completely acceptable. That is in certain areas and not all. I would also say that it can take a long time to get your assessment. When you've got your assessment, try and do as much research as you possibly can to the type of things that you might need help with. As you've got a long time between applying and being assessed, start writing down all the things that you struggle with, and perhaps look at other people, what they've got in groups where they're asking, what is it you've applied for? What has really helped you? Some people have got like, I know you've got one of them, a Remarkable that helps you write out notes and stuff, which is really good.

Rachel

But yeah, it's helpful to know what things you struggle with. Do you struggle with taking action? Do you struggle with logging on? Do you need, like I've now been funded a screen, because I needed a bigger screen to be able to see stuff. I didn't realise how massive that was until my husband bought home a screen. And when I just saw everything on a bigger screen, I was like, Oh, this is so... I could work so much better. For people with dyslexia, you can get like screen guards that go over your screen that are different colours and stuff. You may need support with books, equipment, software, whatever that looks like, just keep having a think about that. I would just say don't give up. Also my Access to Work probably won't like this recommendation, but my recommendation as well is don't be afraid to push back, because sometimes you can get a no to something. I've had people that I know exactly the same boat as me, and they said no to a support worker, and yet a million other people have been given a support worker. So don't be afraid to push back. They have an appeals process.

Rachel

They have a complaints process. They even just your case worker, you can ask for a different case worker, push back and be like, no other people have had a support worker. This can be signed off, etc, so it can be done.

Victoria

Yeah, and I think it's just that awareness piece, isn't it? What are all the options so that you can go into those conversations feeling fully informed and empowered to advocate for your needs and speak up for what it is that you do need to access your work.

Rachel

That's it. And there's no, on the government website, there's no clear thing of here's all the list of things that you could get or whatnot. But there are people like yourself, like other people that I know that are trying to start building a list that they can put out there to people to say here's some of the things that you can get and apply for. And, yeah, sadly, I only know my own situation and other people's, but what someone else might need, like I said about the taxi to work, might be very different. And I don't always know those things.

Victoria

Absolutely. Yeah. And then, listen, if you're interested in Access to Work, there is a page on my website that I will link in the show notes that also makes a couple of recommendations for agencies, I'm saying in inverted commas, who can help with the whole application process, because it isn't particularly friendly and it is quite long winded, let's just put it that way.

Rachel

And certainly when you then get it all signed off, that's when you also probably will need help. I was very lucky that my support worker started working instantly before they got any payment and they waited to catch up, but they helped me start to put through for, I mean, that's the hilarious thing, isn't it? You're expecting people who are dyslexic or with ADHD to fill in these forms and be on top of it and understand how to do it and then actually take action to take that to a post box like, That's never going to happen.

Victoria

Or within a set deadline as well.

Rachel

Yeah. So if you can get someone to help you, whether that's a support worker or whether it's like the coach like you said, there are companies out there that now help and stuff, feel free to contact me and I'll help you do anything I can to help understand it as well. But having that support around you will really help you.

Victoria

Amazing. Well, Rachel, thank you so much for your time on today's show. And thank you for being so generous with your knowledge and your experience with the whole conversation. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Rachel

Thank you for having me.